Home hardware server Vs VPS

[molly]

I am new to this topic.
I was wondering what others prefer when it comes to servers, do you prefer to use your own equipment or use a VPS. Are there any situations you think one is better than another, webpage, database, email…etc.
How do the options compare in terms of -
Privacy
Anonymity
Security
Do you feel comfortable putting your website and data on others equipment?
Do you feel paranoid about the data being stored at your location?
Do you only host on TOR or I2p?

For those that do host websites, do you find it time consuming and/or stressful?

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[strawberry9]

Before I answer these, I have 2 questions and a request:

1-are you fed? Like you seriously ask so many taste and opinion questions i started to feel suspicious about you.

2-was you part of the original digdeeper community back when the MUC existed?

and my request is:

I opened this post on my phone and, because I dont have umatrix disable images like in my pc, I was forced to see your terrible profile picture, can you change it to something less cringe.

molly is giving fed vibes with the female avatar and how they interact here but you can never be 100% fed-free.

I think it might be useful to have a guide for staying private on this forum (a list of general things not to share and examples of how details from multiple posts could narrow individuals down). I would be happy to work on it with people.

[molly]

Before I answer these, I have 2 questions and a request:

1-are you fed? Like you seriously ask so many taste and opinion questions i started to feel suspicious about you.

2-was you part of the original digdeeper community back when the MUC existed?

and my request is:

I opened this post on my phone and, because I dont have umatrix disable images like in my pc, I was forced to see your terrible profile picture, can you change it to something less cringe.

1. Yes I am.
2. No feds were not allowed on there.

as to your request- go piss up a rope.

[molly]

Before I answer these, I have 2 questions and a request:

1-are you fed? Like you seriously ask so many taste and opinion questions i started to feel suspicious about you.

2-was you part of the original digdeeper community back when the MUC existed?

and my request is:

I opened this post on my phone and, because I dont have umatrix disable images like in my pc, I was forced to see your terrible profile picture, can you change it to something less cringe.

molly is giving fed vibes with the female avatar and how they interact here but you can never be 100% fed-free.

I think it might be useful to have a guide for staying private on this forum (a list of general things not to share and examples of how details from multiple posts could narrow individuals down). I would be happy to work on it with people.

Yes lets start with strange user names, anyone naming themselves after fruit may be homosexual, lets ban them.

[strawberry9]

Before I answer these, I have 2 questions and a request:

1-are you fed? Like you seriously ask so many taste and opinion questions i started to feel suspicious about you.

2-was you part of the original digdeeper community back when the MUC existed?

and my request is:

I opened this post on my phone and, because I dont have umatrix disable images like in my pc, I was forced to see your terrible profile picture, can you change it to something less cringe.

molly is giving fed vibes with the female avatar and how they interact here but you can never be 100% fed-free.

I think it might be useful to have a guide for staying private on this forum (a list of general things not to share and examples of how details from multiple posts could narrow individuals down). I would be happy to work on it with people.

Yes lets start by strange user names, anyone naming themselves after fruit may be homosexual, lets ban them.

I didn't want to get you banned. My point was not aganst you it was that it shouldn't matter if everyone is a fed on here if we are smart with how we share information.

[molly]

molly is giving fed vibes with the female avatar and how they interact here but you can never be 100% fed-free.

I think it might be useful to have a guide for staying private on this forum (a list of general things not to share and examples of how details from multiple posts could narrow individuals down). I would be happy to work on it with people.

Yes lets start by strange user names, anyone naming themselves after fruit may be homosexual, lets ban them.

I didn't want to get you banned. My point was not aganst you it was that it shouldn't matter if everyone is a fed on here if we are smart with how we share information.

So what is the point of having the forum if you don't "share information"? Why are you here?

[qualia]

[TOP SECRET COMMUNICATION]
[ONLY HIGH-RANKING MOSSAD AGENTS CAN READ THIS MESSAGE]
Good job, Shlomo. Or should I call you "molly"? Just 2-3 more mundane questions about taste and opinions and this forum will be under our control!

[strawberry9]

Yes lets start by strange user names, anyone naming themselves after fruit may be homosexual, lets ban them.

I didn't want to get you banned. My point was not aganst you it was that it shouldn't matter if everyone is a fed on here if we are smart with how we share information.

So what is the point of having the forum if you don't "share information"? Why are you here?

I said we should be smart with what we share not that we shouldn't share anything. I'm working on a reponse to your original post but it's taking a bit.

[strawberry9]

For sharing stuff with friends, I use a dedicated laptop as a server and back up to a cold HDD once in a while. A lot is accessible through static html directory listings because it just works, it's easy for people to use and I'm lazy. Probably less reliable than a good VPS due to bitrot and such.

If I wanted the most privacy for a legal public onion service I would use a VPS without KYC. Long running onion services have a different threat model than browsing with Tor so I would look into Tor vanguards to make the VPS harder to find. Also, private keys should stay off of the VPS when possible.
Establishing a PGP key early on might be good if you want to sign all your URLs to prevent impersonation.
In terms of the actual site you should keep it static and not allow user uploads if you don't have to. Also don't use SVGs for the privacy of users.

If you trust the Tor network to keep the server hidden and you are worried about LEA; a money trail is historically the easiest way to track you down, even with crypto currencies.

I would not put sensitive unencrypted data on a VPS. There are a million ways to encrypt data for backup but look into how Tarsnap backup works (it's PBKDF is not the best but it is still good).

--> Anna's Archive has a good guide on their GitLab instace for hosting sensitive services <--

For hosting a website I used to find TLS certs difficult but acme with let's encrypt makes it easy. Even httpd from OpenBSD supports acme. You could self-sign but you don't need https for .onion domains in most cases.

[molly]

For sharing stuff with friends, I use a dedicated laptop as a server and back up to a cold HDD once in a while. A lot is accessible through static html directory listings because it just works, it's easy for people to use and I'm lazy. Probably less reliable than a good VPS due to bitrot and such.

If I wanted the most privacy for a legal public onion service I would use a VPS without KYC. Long running onion services have a different threat model than browsing with Tor so I would look into Tor vanguards to make the VPS harder to find. Also, private keys should stay off of the VPS when possible.
Establishing a PGP key early on might be good if you want to sign all your URLs to prevent impersonation.
In terms of the actual site you should keep it static and not allow user uploads if you don't have to. Also don't use SVGs for the privacy of users.

If you trust the Tor network to keep the server hidden and you are worried about LEA; a money trail is historically the easiest way to track you down, even with crypto currencies.

I would not put sensitive unencrypted data on a VPS. There are a million ways to encrypt data for backup but look into how Tarsnap backup works (it's PBKDF is not the best but it is still good).

--> Anna's Archive has a good guide on their GitLab instace for hosting sensitive services <--

For hosting a website I used to find TLS certs difficult but acme with let's encrypt makes it easy. Even httpd from OpenBSD supports acme. You could self-sign but you don't need https for .onion domains in most cases.

Thanks for the detailed reply, I have lots of ideas for websites but do not have the knowledge yet.
I think the more individual people who make web sites the better, less reliance on the big corporate pigs.
Rather than just diving in and reading everything about different ways to do it I wanted to ask here so I can narrow it down and then go and research those specific methods. Asking other people who have done it before for me is the best starting point.

[strawberry9]

For sharing stuff with friends, I use a dedicated laptop as a server and back up to a cold HDD once in a while. A lot is accessible through static html directory listings because it just works, it's easy for people to use and I'm lazy. Probably less reliable than a good VPS due to bitrot and such.

If I wanted the most privacy for a legal public onion service I would use a VPS without KYC. Long running onion services have a different threat model than browsing with Tor so I would look into Tor vanguards to make the VPS harder to find. Also, private keys should stay off of the VPS when possible.
Establishing a PGP key early on might be good if you want to sign all your URLs to prevent impersonation.
In terms of the actual site you should keep it static and not allow user uploads if you don't have to. Also don't use SVGs for the privacy of users.

If you trust the Tor network to keep the server hidden and you are worried about LEA; a money trail is historically the easiest way to track you down, even with crypto currencies.

I would not put sensitive unencrypted data on a VPS. There are a million ways to encrypt data for backup but look into how Tarsnap backup works (it's PBKDF is not the best but it is still good).

--> Anna's Archive has a good guide on their GitLab instace for hosting sensitive services <--

For hosting a website I used to find TLS certs difficult but acme with let's encrypt makes it easy. Even httpd from OpenBSD supports acme. You could self-sign but you don't need https for .onion domains in most cases.

Thanks for the detailed reply, I have lots of ideas for websites but do not have the knowledge yet.
I think the more individual people who make web sites the better, less reliance on the big corporate pigs.
Rather than just diving in and reading everything about different ways to do it I wanted to ask here so I can narrow it down and then go and research those specific methods. Asking other people who have done it before for me is the best starting point.

Since you are just starting out I would recommend writing some super basic html pages for your site before doing the server things. Maybe copy the source of a simple site you like and use it as a template. Sites from the 90s on the wayback machine are good.
I hope you end up making something cool.

[digdeeper]

I recommend a free host like https://web1.0hosting.net/ first. It basically has everything you'd want for a static site, other than TOR / I2P access (but there is yggdrasil access, somehow). Get the content out first and see if this is something you'd actually like to do. There is a lot that goes into managing a VPS that is quite annoying. So better to get the site out first and sunkcost yourself, so that you are motivated to keep it up when you later switch to a VPS.

Home hosting is the best in terms of control. No screwing around with ssh, etc. But you are limited to darknet access unless you use a VPS as a redirect to your home server. And you have to ensure the computer is on, location secure, etc. No offloading anything. It really is ideal though because in the end you are in charge. Situations like the incognet horror show are completely prevented. And you don't have to pay other than what you already pay for internet and electricity.

In the end I cuck to VPSes because I really really don't want to be fedded, and darknet location hiding is not perfect. Also, I want some reach and thus need a domain regardless, so I'd need a VPS then at which point I might as well put what I want there. But the setup where the VPS serves exclusively as a redirect is probably the best overall.

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[strawberry9]

I recommend a free host like https://web1.0hosting.net/ first. It basically has everything you'd want for a static site, other than TOR / I2P access (but there is yggdrasil access, somehow). Get the content out first and see if this is something you'd actually like to do. There is a lot that goes into managing a VPS that is quite annoying. So better to get the site out first and sunkcost yourself, so that you are motivated to keep it up when you later switch to a VPS.

Home hosting is the best in terms of control. No screwing around with ssh, etc. But you are limited to darknet access unless you use a VPS as a redirect to your home server. And you have to ensure the computer is on, location secure, etc. No offloading anything. It really is ideal though because in the end you are in charge. Situations like the incognet horror show are completely prevented. And you don't have to pay other than what you already pay for internet and electricity.

In the end I cuck to VPSes because I really really don't want to be fedded, and darknet location hiding is not perfect. Also, I want some reach and thus need a domain regardless, so I'd need a VPS then at which point I might as well put what I want there. But the setup where the VPS serves exclusively as a redirect is probably the best overall.

I have seen that free host mentioned on digdeeper several times, but nowhere else. Are you affiliated with them or is it just a hidden gem? The host is russian from what i can tell (not that them being so is good or bad if that is the case).

[digdeeper]

I recommend a free host like https://web1.0hosting.net/ first. It basically has everything you'd want for a static site, other than TOR / I2P access (but there is yggdrasil access, somehow). Get the content out first and see if this is something you'd actually like to do. There is a lot that goes into managing a VPS that is quite annoying. So better to get the site out first and sunkcost yourself, so that you are motivated to keep it up when you later switch to a VPS.

Home hosting is the best in terms of control. No screwing around with ssh, etc. But you are limited to darknet access unless you use a VPS as a redirect to your home server. And you have to ensure the computer is on, location secure, etc. No offloading anything. It really is ideal though because in the end you are in charge. Situations like the incognet horror show are completely prevented. And you don't have to pay other than what you already pay for internet and electricity.

In the end I cuck to VPSes because I really really don't want to be fedded, and darknet location hiding is not perfect. Also, I want some reach and thus need a domain regardless, so I'd need a VPS then at which point I might as well put what I want there. But the setup where the VPS serves exclusively as a redirect is probably the best overall.

I have seen that free host mentioned on digdeeper several times, but nowhere else. Are you affiliated with them or is it just a hidden gem? The host is russian from what i can tell (not that them being so is good or bad if that is the case).

Not affiliated. When I began making my site I promised myself I won't take any sponsors, still keeping that.

In fact, I wanted to donate to them but I only have monero, and they didn't want to or couldn't take that for some reason.

I only learned of this host because one of my friends was hosting his site there. Yes, it appears to just be a hidden gem.

[qualia]

To actually anwer your question, I used to have a setup in which I hosted things from my old-ish but still decent pc but the web server was hosted on a cheap VPS paid for with Monero, connected to the pc via a wireguard tunnel. The company I rented the VPS from is called 99stack, I believe they're simply a Vultr reseller with monero payment and no KYC. They've been quite good most of the time but sometimes I experienced really bad CPU steal. These days, I've given up on the whole PC setup and only use the VPS to host a SearXNG instance. The reason is that I realized many of the more demanding services I hosted from the pc were basically only for accessing things I already downloaded onto the PC locally from my slavephone (media streaming, local AI), which I've been trying to use as little as possible. For hosting simple static sites I wouldn't bother with a VPS just use any decent free static host (no experience with the one diggy mentioned, ive had good experience with neocities in the past, not sure how they are now).

[anonymous_]

Home hosting is the best in terms of control. No screwing around with ssh, etc. But you are limited to darknet access unless you use a VPS as a redirect to your home server. And you have to ensure the computer is on, location secure, etc. No offloading anything. It really is ideal though because in the end you are in charge. Situations like the incognet horror show are completely prevented. And you don't have to pay other than what you already pay for internet and electricity.

In the end I cuck to VPSes because I really really don't want to be fedded, and darknet location hiding is not perfect. Also, I want some reach and thus need a domain regardless, so I'd need a VPS then at which point I might as well put what I want there. But the setup where the VPS serves exclusively as a redirect is probably the best overall.

This is the most independent solution. There's a few ways to achieve it.
One way (the easiest way) would be to use a VPN service that offers a static IP (plenty of them do) and/or port forwarding, however most of them do not have XMR payments (though some may have BTC payments, so could swap the XMR over I guess).
There's also some proxy services (some of which are free) that will tunnel, say, just HTTP/S so that you can hide your IP from outsiders and your ISP, just not the proxy service.
You can also run your own VPN if you purchase a VPS from literally any provider, but preferably one that allows payments in XMR.
Wireguard would be the primary option here, but there's others like OpenVPN and IKEv2. I've heard of a solution that uses exclusively IKEv2 with encryption and IPv6 that's supposed to be good, but I'm not sure if it's just 'pseudonymous' or not.
If you have a VPS you could also run your own proxy services on it, such as xmpp-proxy and nginx. If your home server is running Tor or I2P you can then direct those proxies to connect via one of those darknets (for example, I2P allows you to create client tunnels) that would then connect back to a theoretical home host.

Another thing to consider would be a potential timing attack, your server should have at least some type of UPS or ideally a fully off grid (solar?) power supply. A laptop sort of has this built in, assuming it has decent battery life, but also consider your router/modem as well.

With this setup all traffic is hidden from the ISP and your VPS provider does not know your IP (unlike if you were using the VPS to run a VPN). However, the ISP will know you are using a darknet, just not for what.

A note regarding SSH; while you could setup a keyboard/mouse/monitor for the server computer, I still think SSH is highly useful because it will allow you to remote control from your primary computer (or even remotely if you are away from home) and provides file transfer (sftp://).

It would also suggest walling this computer off from the rest of your network (unless you have separate ones, but even still you don't want errant doxing clearnet connections getting made). For example, use a "gateway" device (eg a small Orange Pi or a switch running Armtix, OpenWrt, *Sense or whatever) that perhaps runs I2P/Tor and blocks all other connections from coming/going to the server computer using nftables or pf or something. It is important to do this on a separate device so that if the server computer becomes compromised or if you accidentally mess something up, the firewall stands strong regardless. Expect that applications (prosody, for example) will try to contact DNS and attempt to contact clearnet domains despite having no business doing so.

Regardless, look at the darknet as the primary 'net', and see clearnet as nothing but an outproxy. Clearnet is very based around domains and ownership of them, as well as transparent connections and numerical IPs associated with ISP accounts that tie back to real names and bank accounts. Services like Njalla can help alot for when you do finally need to get a domain to attach to your VPS proxy server.
There's others too (look on kycnot.me), but Njalla is the most well known/tested. If you want to keep cost low and are ok with an address like mycoolserver.moooimacow.us you can get free subdomains somewhere like freedns.afraid.org.

If you have any further questions I'm happy to help.

[molly]

I recommend a free host like https://web1.0hosting.net/ first. It basically has everything you'd want for a static site, other than TOR / I2P access (but there is yggdrasil access, somehow). Get the content out first and see if this is something you'd actually like to do. There is a lot that goes into managing a VPS that is quite annoying. So better to get the site out first and sunkcost yourself, so that you are motivated to keep it up when you later switch to a VPS.

Home hosting is the best in terms of control. No screwing around with ssh, etc. But you are limited to darknet access unless you use a VPS as a redirect to your home server. And you have to ensure the computer is on, location secure, etc. No offloading anything. It really is ideal though because in the end you are in charge. Situations like the incognet horror show are completely prevented. And you don't have to pay other than what you already pay for internet and electricity.

In the end I cuck to VPSes because I really really don't want to be fedded, and darknet location hiding is not perfect. Also, I want some reach and thus need a domain regardless, so I'd need a VPS then at which point I might as well put what I want there. But the setup where the VPS serves exclusively as a redirect is probably the best overall.

As always excellent advice. Lots of factors to consider for the home server, what device to use and how much power it uses, the price of electric at your location, how to make it anonymous (if possible) and security from hackers....
Personally I am not keen on putting it on someone else's server and giving them control.

[molly]

Home hosting is the best in terms of control. No screwing around with ssh, etc. But you are limited to darknet access unless you use a VPS as a redirect to your home server. And you have to ensure the computer is on, location secure, etc. No offloading anything. It really is ideal though because in the end you are in charge. Situations like the incognet horror show are completely prevented. And you don't have to pay other than what you already pay for internet and electricity.

In the end I cuck to VPSes because I really really don't want to be fedded, and darknet location hiding is not perfect. Also, I want some reach and thus need a domain regardless, so I'd need a VPS then at which point I might as well put what I want there. But the setup where the VPS serves exclusively as a redirect is probably the best overall.

This is the most independent solution. There's a few ways to achieve it.
One way (the easiest way) would be to use a VPN service that offers a static IP (plenty of them do) and/or port forwarding, however most of them do not have XMR payments (though some may have BTC payments, so could swap the XMR over I guess).
There's also some proxy services (some of which are free) that will tunnel, say, just HTTP/S so that you can hide your IP from outsiders and your ISP, just not the proxy service.
You can also run your own VPN if you purchase a VPS from literally any provider, but preferably one that allows payments in XMR.
Wireguard would be the primary option here, but there's others like OpenVPN and IKEv2. I've heard of a solution that uses exclusively IKEv2 with encryption and IPv6 that's supposed to be good, but I'm not sure if it's just 'pseudonymous' or not.
If you have a VPS you could also run your own proxy services on it, such as xmpp-proxy and nginx. If your home server is running Tor or I2P you can then direct those proxies to connect via one of those darknets (for example, I2P allows you to create client tunnels) that would then connect back to a theoretical home host.

Another thing to consider would be a potential timing attack, your server should have at least some type of UPS or ideally a fully off grid (solar?) power supply. A laptop sort of has this built in, assuming it has decent battery life, but also consider your router/modem as well.

With this setup all traffic is hidden from the ISP and your VPS provider does not know your IP (unlike if you were using the VPS to run a VPN). However, the ISP will know you are using a darknet, just not for what.

A note regarding SSH; while you could setup a keyboard/mouse/monitor for the server computer, I still think SSH is highly useful because it will allow you to remote control from your primary computer (or even remotely if you are away from home) and provides file transfer (sftp://).

It would also suggest walling this computer off from the rest of your network (unless you have separate ones, but even still you don't want errant doxing clearnet connections getting made). For example, use a "gateway" device (eg a small Orange Pi or a switch running Armtix, OpenWrt, *Sense or whatever) that perhaps runs I2P/Tor and blocks all other connections from coming/going to the server computer using nftables or pf or something. It is important to do this on a separate device so that if the server computer becomes compromised or if you accidentally mess something up, the firewall stands strong regardless. Expect that applications (prosody, for example) will try to contact DNS and attempt to contact clearnet domains despite having no business doing so.

Regardless, look at the darknet as the primary 'net', and see clearnet as nothing but an outproxy. Clearnet is very based around domains and ownership of them, as well as transparent connections and numerical IPs associated with ISP accounts that tie back to real names and bank accounts. Services like Njalla can help alot for when you do finally need to get a domain to attach to your VPS proxy server.
There's others too (look on kycnot.me), but Njalla is the most well known/tested. If you want to keep cost low and are ok with an address like mycoolserver.moooimacow.us you can get free subdomains somewhere like freedns.afraid.org.

If you have any further questions I'm happy to help.

This is an excellent expansion of diggy's post. The VPN tunnel is what I had in mind when i made the post.
I have already tested wireguard between 2 openwrt based routers running asterisk to create an encrypted phone line.
I was wondering if any hosts have wireguard or openvpn (because I found wierguard limited) connections for getting a clearnet domain.