We need a meta-project

[digdeeper]

Currently, if someone has a shiny idea (no matter whether it's software, political, or whatever else) it often just remains in his mind because there is no easy way to get anything done with it. Or sometimes the person performs a Rambo for a few months on some website, git repo, or whatever - and then it dies.

I want to eliminate this common pipeline, and make it easy to create projects (or find them if they already exist), join them, develop them, maybe provide crypto rewards, progress tracking, etc. Every shiny new idea would fit into this framework. And it would help it not die. But I don't know how exactly to do it. I suspect the components for it already exist, it's just a matter of putting them together.

We could have a database spread by torrents or other decentralized protocol that would list all the existing projects to join. And it might be hooked up to some website that would provide an UI for comments, crypto rewards, and progress tracking. The point of all this to me, is so that human effort and ingenuity isn't wasted because it's just too hard to launch. Which is what's commonly going on today. The Rambo loses steam and disappears.

What do you think?

[moeloli]

That doesn't sound bad but it sounds a bit vague.

[digdeeper]

Yeah it is just a concept now and the technical details remain to be decided. But let me try to provide more depth.

Basically, your mom gets a shiny new idea and what does she do? Make a git repo or website? The idea is she gets onto the framework, using an in-built search engine to see if such a project was already conceived. Then, joins easily, or is able to comment, see progress, and donate crypto - all in one framework, one software. We could leverage tags for checking if similar projects have been conceived, or even an LLM.

There should also be an easy way to advertise your project to other people in the framework. And to spread updates to people in a decentralized way, maybe picking up the keys concept from Freenet - https://github-wiki-see.page/m/hyphanet/wiki/wiki/Freenet-Key It should also have an in-built way of adding communication means, PGP keys, etc. And progress tracking to motivate people.

The thing should also be relatively censorship resistant, and accessible by web browser or a terminal program if someone wants that. But also spam-resistant, for which we could use a web of trust type system, or a downvote / upvote system.

So far, all of these steps are up to whoever manages the project to setup. I want all these to already be set up for them, so that the actual ideas receive the focus. Basically something like anti-gatekeeping, making running projects accessible to anyone.

[laki]

I agree. It should also have a feature that allows for project requests to be submitted. It shkuld2be relatibely immune to spam or other nonsense.

I feel like something community related could be incredibly powerful. It is pretty hard to organise information among a group of people these days I think.

How do you plan to get this started?

[digdeeper]

Might try to code a makeshift thing at some point. Or at least show how I imagine it working.
Then, if people find value in it, they might contribute.
Yet very likely, it will just end up in a pile of endless failed ideas. This community isn't big enough.

[laki]

Why don't we just make a wiki? Everyone can have an account as long as it is approved, any spammers can have their account banned, certain sections can be locked off, etc. I think that would be a great idea.

[lostuser]

slop

[lostuser]

slop

[digdeeper]

What wiki software do you suggest? I don't think it provides everything I'm imagining, but I can check it out.

[LoadingXML]

Your ideas are already implimented, ever heard of github?

This post reminded me of that so funny attempt to modernize Gajim 1.6.1 (If I recall the version correctly), which was planned back in The Braining Train chat, and member oneflux toke the burden to develop it, he started a repo, and issues were opened to track what needs to be changed, and... absolutely nothing was done.

The outcome was so expected, and despite my warnings they kept discussing what could be changed and brain storming ideas, only for nothing to be done, I like when people don't listen to my advice only for them to confirm I was right.

In order for a project to be done and completed you need 3 out of 4 following ingredients:

1-The desire to do it
2-Skilled Team
3-Funding
4-Time

If you don't have them 3 out of these 4, your project will die or won't even start, in that Gajim 1.6.1, it lacked (2), (3) and (4), and even (1) if you assumed they were just dreaming and no desire to do it.

No amount of tooling or protocols would fix this issue, it is a fundemental one that has to do with human nature, if you lacked (1) then why bother, if you lacked (2) you would get tired, if you lacked (3) you would starve, if you lacked (4) then nothing can be done.

[digdeeper]

If Github is your best way to maintain projects then it exactly shows the need for something better.

Yeah nothing was done with the gajim. Don't you think it has something to do with burning train being the base of operations?

Sure you need a team. The team also needs to find each other somehow, and new members. And stay in communication. And then keep motivation. And gather funding if you believe that's needed. That's the point of the meta-project.

[www]

Wownero cryptocurrency can be thing that you saying. I like Wownero and they do a impressive work with your fork. unfortunately the last update is 1 yr ago.

[laki]

Your ideas are already implimented, ever heard of github?

This post reminded me of that so funny attempt to modernize Gajim 1.6.1 (If I recall the version correctly), which was planned back in The Braining Train chat, and member oneflux toke the burden to develop it, he started a repo, and issues were opened to track what needs to be changed, and... absolutely nothing was done.

The outcome was so expected, and despite my warnings they kept discussing what could be changed and brain storming ideas, only for nothing to be done, I like when people don't listen to my advice only for them to confirm I was right.

In order for a project to be done and completed you need 3 out of 4 following ingredients:

1-The desire to do it
2-Skilled Team
3-Funding
4-Time

If you don't have them 3 out of these 4, your project will die or won't even start, in that Gajim 1.6.1, it lacked (2), (3) and (4), and even (1) if you assumed they were just dreaming and no desire to do it.

No amount of tooling or protocols would fix this issue, it is a fundemental one that has to do with human nature, if you lacked (1) then why bother, if you lacked (2) you would get tired, if you lacked (3) you would starve, if you lacked (4) then nothing can be done.

Btw I forked Gajim 0.16.9 as an AppImage so that anyone can run it. I first need to find some time to properly make sure it has all the deps for most systems and then i will begin adding features/modernising

[Theundercoverman_]

Btw I forked Gajim 0.16.9 as an AppImage so that anyone can run it. I first need to find some time to properly make sure it has all the deps for most systems and then i will begin adding features/modernising

By modernising do you mean enhancing security or copying Discord's UI like later versions of Gajim did?

Also Gajim 0.16.9, and all other versions before 1.5 had this vulnerability
https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2022-39835

[digdeeper]

Btw I forked Gajim 0.16.9 as an AppImage so that anyone can run it. I first need to find some time to properly make sure it has all the deps for most systems and then i will begin adding features/modernising

By modernising do you mean enhancing security or copying Discord's UI like later versions of Gajim did?

Also Gajim 0.16.9, and all other versions before 1.5 had this vulnerability
https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2022-39835

Are you sure?

I tested that with someone, and he wasn't able to induce it with me. I suspect this refers only to versions after 1.

[laki]

Btw I forked Gajim 0.16.9 as an AppImage so that anyone can run it. I first need to find some time to properly make sure it has all the deps for most systems and then i will begin adding features/modernising

By modernising do you mean enhancing security or copying Discord's UI like later versions of Gajim did?

Also Gajim 0.16.9, and all other versions before 1.5 had this vulnerability
https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2022-39835

Security should be good already. By modernising, I mean adding new XMPP specifications, making 0.16.9 actually work with newer XMPP servers, etc. Obviously I will not add the new discord UI, because otherwise there would be no point in forking it altogether.

[Theundercoverman_]

Btw I forked Gajim 0.16.9 as an AppImage so that anyone can run it. I first need to find some time to properly make sure it has all the deps for most systems and then i will begin adding features/modernising

By modernising do you mean enhancing security or copying Discord's UI like later versions of Gajim did?

Also Gajim 0.16.9, and all other versions before 1.5 had this vulnerability
https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2022-39835

Are you sure?

I tested that with someone, and he wasn't able to induce it with me. I suspect this refers only to versions after 1.

It could have been, but then again, CVEs or lack thereof doesn't determine how secure software is.

[equilibria]

.

[d7oqkeho]

Projects that are currently dead and needs to be revived:

• Heads GNU/Linux, Tails without systemD and binary blobs: https://heads.dyne.org
  Crimeflare/deCloudflare project, advocate websites and users to boycott and stop using services by Cloudflare: https://gitlab.lain.la/dCF/deCloudflare

[digdeeper]

Projects that are currently dead and needs to be revived:

• Heads GNU/Linux, Tails without systemD and binary blobs: https://heads.dyne.org
  Crimeflare/deCloudflare project, advocate websites and users to boycott and stop using services by Cloudflare: https://gitlab.lain.la/dCF/deCloudflare

Nice. Feel free to add to this. I would add:

SpaceFM - the only GUI file manager with customizability and extensibility as a core feature, instead of an afterthought. Original dev is either deceased or got so disillusioned he left the linux space.
Jive Search (https://github.com/clanstyles/jivesearch) - a search engine with a massive amount of features that no one has cared about for years. In fact, it took me some time to even find the most recent source code. I think it's the only one out there, and only because some random bothered to clone the repo.
Insert Coin (https://github.com/jadedctrl/insert-coin) - simple image host

As for CF, IceCat has an addon called TPRB that redirects CF connections to archived versions. Like what the old BCMA used to do. Somehow, not many people know this. I only figured it out while reviewing IceCat a few years back.

[d7oqkeho]

We need more volunteers to run MortyProxy instances, enabling users to reach sites that block Tor access.

[d7oqkeho]

Chippy, the individual maintaining the site that provides the GNU Icecat browser binaries (https://icecatbrowser.org), is battling cancer and will be unable to keep working on the site or releasing future browser versions. Someone else should step in and take over the project.

[qualia]

As for CF, IceCat has an addon called TPRB that redirects CF connections to archived versions. Like what the old BCMA used to do. Somehow, not many people know this. I only figured it out while reviewing IceCat a few years back.

That reminds me, I wanted to write something similar for palemoon for a while, maybe I'll finally get to it.

[int32]

Why don't we just make a wiki? Everyone can have an account as long as it is approved, any spammers can have their account banned, certain sections can be locked off, etc. I think that would be a great idea.

this seems like a very good idea, I think it could be split into existing projects and platonic forms:
on the pages for platonic forms, there could be these informations:

• different requirements and ways to implement these requirements, and which users are for and against each requirement
• a list of users working on this
• resources
• a list of related ideas
• a list of existing projects

for the pages for existing projects, we could have this:

• a description of the project
• the platonic form corresponding to the project
• the aims of the project
• which requirements the projects fullfills

it would seem that everything can already be done by existing wiki projects, but making a custom software would most probably make the UX better.

[kairu]

I have read a few posts here and the OP reminded me of this, this has no technical backing, i might be improvising here, but this came from reading about FOSS and a potential tool that may get abandoned - cwtch, from there i found out about many others.. so this might be the attempt of fooling myself that i will try this()

This project is mostly inspired, should be considered in development(no guarantee) state until it is abandoned.
Outline for Project: This system is for preserving the projects that are abandoned or no longer maintained, it will contribute in making tools, software, etc aiming to make the usage of the tools private for the user, every tool of this project will be open sourced, while keeping the freedom of the user in mind, another goal - to create general apps/services(not primarily for replacing mainstream ones but to find which can be made private except ones which are already) and those projects have to be easily modified, audited, etc by the user, easy in a way that they do not need too much of technical knowledge.

(I propose using AI since maintaining in mass is not possible for a human group)
The AI workers are grouped like this
- Group A- will find not active or not maintained, and abandoned projects(assuming their source code is available) that were aimed to provide freedom to users, also this group will be trained to understand the software we use daily(so it can optimize accordingly), after this, the group will clone it, strip off anything that goes outside user's machine without consent, while maintaining usability in a minimalist way, these will implement security tools that our contributors will develop, for controlling how these models operate, aiming to verify and clone only what it started with, also auditing those clones for security features they need.

- Group B- will work for categorizing, maintaining repos for long term, this group will troubleshoot according user based feedback, known errors(will analyze the work done by Group A) and such, also will contribute to improvement of these products(mainly making it secure and adding features that are needed - collected from users)

- Group C- will work on auditing these products(ones which are and will be released for public), offensive testing on these products to find vulnerabilities, and to strip off features that are not needed and check what info it does still collect(second run to verify it), it will note them and remove them if found unnecessary or if it is necessary, it will notify the user, whether they want it, these must operate continuously to find the what is needed(to be removed or to be improved)

The team- Contributors, dev, moderators and helpers (they will be paid for reviewing, auditing these ai workers(for ensuring they are secure to begin with) implement improvements, a training of some sort(or similar) aiming to make helpers question the AI behavior and verify(now how these will be secure enough to trust is different but we can make a way for independently verifying if it is) these ai workers will be trained by the project members themselves, the models will be open source for anyone to audit, however since these models have to be audited and be modified(latest model can't be released for the security reasons however whatever changed can be verified by anyone- have to think for this) and there's more to this.. Volunteers are needed(as eventually, they will join our team- verifying things themselves, minimizing the trust, taking part in this is volunteering)
And one more thing, even if devs and ai have performed checks on their end but if its not audited or reviewed by user themselves then consider this project abandoned, there is no use of freedom if you don't even try to find if what you use is in your control or not. contributing will help others so they can get it and hence we collectively gain the freedom, it was never meant for just an individual. (this is dramatic here but i would like a grounded idea related to this)

Users can do anything with that software to the point it can't be a vulnerability for user or software security, that said, there can't be any project to perfectly achieve this, but that is the goal.

If i have not made it clear - it is aimed to be open at every stage of development, modification. Core want is to make tools which minimize trust between provider and the client and even then that trust should be independently verifiable.

This needs high end hardware and people and so given current spyware heavy environment, this is just idealistic

I wanted to write it here

[BVLL]

Why don't we just make a wiki? Everyone can have an account as long as it is approved, any spammers can have their account banned, certain sections can be locked off, etc. I think that would be a great idea.

YES
And comically the first article made is going to be about circumcision